Realistic Re-Entry: Interviews with 2 Former Prisoners

Interview by Kathleen Pequeño

The problems of facing individuals re-entering the community, and the problems facing the transition/re-entry system are so numerous we could have devoted all 12 pages of the Special Focus just to what needs to change about re-entry. We decided to interview one of the WPP Board members, Madeleine Dennis, who has served time in the Federal system, and since coming out on parole in 2000, has helped prisoners with transition from prison and jail to the community here in Portland, Oregon. She was joined by Carlos Pérez, who is also an ex-prisoner working on transitional services in Portland.

Justice Matters: What’s the biggest problem facing the people you’ve been working with?

Madeleine Dennis: Lack of housing options is the number one problem. Let’s start there. If you have somewhere to live, you can work on the other stuff: finding work, social services, treatment. For people who really don’t have a place to live, first, it’s a parole violation, not having a verifiable address. And Parole Officers can’t help them find suitable housing. It comes down to people being punished for being homeless. That’s a societal problem. We don’t have adequate housing for any number of people.

For people to expect someone to come out of prison without a safe stable place to live and succeed is ridiculous. People fall back on what they know, and for some folks, that’s continuing criminal activity. This lack of housing is tied to the number of people coming out of prison without a job lined up. How are you supposed to get someone to rent to you without a source of income? And even if they have a verifiable source of income, there’s still discrimination by property management companies. It comes back to there’s not enough affordable housing out there.

Carlos Pérez: And a lot of it is nobody is willing to give them a chance. Even if they have vocational classes in prison, get certificates, when they get out they still have a hard time getting a job. You have to build yourself, sometimes you have to take jobs that you don’t want just to get food on the table, clothes on your back. I work with a program where we encourage people to stay clean and sober, and our success rate is better when they have housing. It’s hard to stay clean and sober when you’re living under a bridge or on the street. Once you have housing you have a better chance of staying sober and not breaking the law. You need to find, for example, landlords willing to work with people.

MD: It comes back to removing barriers to housing. One of the great programs a couple years ago was the Ready to Rent program, through the Portland Housing Center. (It didn’t just serve people coming out of prison.) Ready to Rent is an eight-week class that meets twice a week. The class teaches you how to be a good tenant and a good neighbor. You learn how to clean up your credit report, learn budgeting, how to be a responsible tenant. A perk of this class was the Landlord Guarantee Fund. A landlord who might not regularly rent to a certain person because of bad credit or some other problem (like a criminal history), the fund promised to reimburse the landlord up to $1,000 for unpaid rent or damages to the apartment. The prospective tenant could say to a landlord “Here’s my certificate” and the landlords were more likely to rent to them. The Landlord Fund went away, but even when the money was gone, some property management companies still were taking people who had completed the class just because they knew that people were motivated.

But the program takes eight weeks, and some people don’t have that kind of time. A program like this when they’re inside would make a big difference. Without prison programs, we’re setting people up to fail.

JM: But there’s not a lot of understanding of the importance of prison programs…

MD: It has to do with money, and statewide budget problems. You’re looking at a certain amount of money for programs, so people ask: “Do we want to help schools and kids? Or big scary prisoners?” As long as there are throw-away populations, people are not going to prioritize helping “certain” people. If somebody gets out and they don’t have the services they need, they will do whatever they need to do to survive. The cost of programs to prepare people is still cheaper than putting them back in prison. A lot of it comes back to the cost of implementing and keeping the programs.

CP:  People don’t want to pay more money or pay for programs but they’re gonna pay one way or the other. Like drug and alcohol treatment, since they may not have someone in their family now with an addiction or an alcohol problem, they think it won’t affect them. Instead they wind up paying for more prisons. Once we make prisons, we fill them up. But people are starting to take a step back and look at this.

MD: People can keep saying that they don’t want to fund programs, but if you continue to do what you do (with people) and expect a different outcome, I mean… counselors in prison harp on this with prisoners saying that if they don’t change things, they’re going to get the same outcome, and it’s Mr. Kettle talking to Mr. Pot…. If we don’t give people the support they need, we’re going to keep having people turn to crime to survive.

JM: There will be a lot of people reading this inside who are coming out of prison, or people who are recently out. Any things you want to say to them?

MD: There is hope. It can be so incredibly discouraging, and it can look like no one is ever going to give you a chance, but with persistence and a lot of faith, there’s always somebody out there. When I first got out I applied for a job in a deli and it was going okay until I told him about my conviction and that I was in the halfway house. The smile instantly disappeared and it was “I don’t think my company would hire someone like you.” It was clear he thought I was so worthless. There are a lot of jerks out there, who don’t understand that people make mistakes. But we can’t give up hope. There are people out there who are willing to give us a chance.

CP:  I spent a lot of years in prison, and I’m coming up on six years on the outside. Lots of people don’t get it the first time, except for some fortunate ones. I didn’t get it the first time. But you can turn your life around. I work with people and whether they relapse or whatever, we give them encouragement and they’re gonna see that we really do care, we don’t give up on people, don’t kick them out. We’re to help them regardless of what they’ve done. There’s hope out there for everyone.

This interview originally appeared in the Winter 05 issue of Justice Matters.